War Chip Forums
General => Turbo Tuning => Topic started by: traffik on September 08, 2013, 10:59:17 AM
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I have a 535 twin turbo setup, using the war chip package with 42lb injectors a in tank walbro 255 and a secondary out-tank 255 fuel pump. I'm currently on 13psi of boost. My question is should I be running bigger injectors and a bigger fuel pump if I'm using e85???? I will be tuning 1 map for e85 and 1 map for 91 octane.
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So I guess my question doesn't warrant a answer.
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Not at all, I guess everyone was waiting for me to answer. E85 requires more fuel. 42# injectors, for E85 are considered small. We have not done any e85 tunes for 535's before for a couple reason. Mainly the rarity of customers going for BIG power with an m30 and the lack of E85 to develop with in Canada.
That being said, E85 requires more fuel to do the same "work" as gasoline. You could theoretically use our 42# base mapping and use larger injectors with some tuning and get out ahead with the e85. I would recommend 55# injectors and at most, 60#. The way these ECU's fire the injectors, we don't think that idle would be stable with bigger than 60's
Again, we have never played with E85 on the M30 engine nor have we had customers need to go north of 550 WHP.
A larger pump would be in order too, but there are many things to consider. If you are going super serious with e85 larger and different material lines may be suggested. The fuel rail should suffice.
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Great, thanks for your reply and knowledge on this subject. Now lets get to throwing around some ideas. I have 2 walbro fuel pumps in the tank plus 1 external walbro fuel pump that comes on at 10psi of boost. My fuel lines are already upgraded. I have already maxed out thaws 42lb injecters and was just about to purchase a set of ID 1000cc injectors, but now from reading your post your saying I can't go no more than 60lb injectors. Is this really the case???
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It's just a guess. We have never needed to use the anything larger than 42's on the M30. We've used ID1000's on the M|S5x engines, but they don't fire the injectors they same as Motronic 1.3
The Id 1000's are great, they offer really good injection at super low pulse width but I can't say, "Yes, they will work" because we've never used them on an M30. You can try them for sure, and if you are using e85 and the WAR Chip, you will be able to adjust the fuel accordingly. I just don't know if it would be well suited for a pump gas situation. Again, because MORE e85 fuel is required in the same situation as normal gasoline, the "self" scaling by nature would help make it possible to use our 42# base file and adjust it to suit e85.
We need WAR Chip pioneers! We can't possibly try every set up possible, we just don't have the time, money or more importantly access to hundreds of people localling needing crazy tunes.
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Okay, so here is an update to my project. I am running a 85 with ID 1000 mL injectors on the middle wardship bosh 179 EC you. I got the car to start up perfectly on the first try and it idles perfectly. AFR at Idle is between 14.2 and 14.6. When driving not underload the AFR is perfect between 14 and 15.1. Now that I have it driving good without load I am taking it to the Dyno tomorrow and I will be tuning it up to about 20 to 24 psi of boost. So for all of those out there that have the m30 motor turbocharged and want to run bigger injectors with the Miller warchip your answer is yes. As of now the warchip is capable of handling 1000cc ID injectors on E 85.
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Sweet! Thanks for the confirmation. We need more WAR Chip pioneers like yourself because we simply can't do everything. 8)
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I still have the one problem of the check engine light on and I can not pass the New York State inspection. I've contacted you guys @miller performance several times but no one gets back to me about this problem. I sent an email twice with a copy of the tune I am using but yet and still I don't get a response. The main reason why I choose to use this chip is because I would still be able to pass inspection, but I have proven myself wrong on that note.
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And I have another question as far as boost and tuning is concerned. On the fuel tuning page it only reads up to 11ms. How much boost is that equivalent to?
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11ms isn't related to any boost level. It is load. You can have nearly 11ms load at 5 psi, going up a huge steep hill and having the engine work hard either low RPM with lots of load or High RPM with lots of load.
You can't correlate boost to load on these ECU's. How did the tuning go? We tried emailing your file back to you before you were off to dyno on e85 etc. The file that you are using now, please email that one more time, and we will make the same changes.
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The tune is not going so well, on the dyno we can't get the car to go pass 5000rpm. It's as if it gets a full cut at that rpm. We have the rev limited set to 7000rpm so I know it's not that. And I still have the check engine light problem even after you guys sent the new turbo file to me I'm not a quiter, but I think I've had enough with this chip. Has not work right from day one.
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I saw and responded to your emails. We are away for the Canadian Thanks-giving holiday. As per our previous emails did you monitor the MAF voltage when this cut out was happening? I know you are running twins and they may be drawing more air past the MAF. The power I think you are making, you MAY be getting close to the voltage limit for the sensor simply because of the twins drawing more air through the sensor. There is an easy solution if that is the case.
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Thanks for the reply, unfortunately I did not get as far as to check the maf because the war chip stopped working. Once we resolve this problem then I can get back to the rpm problem. Right now I am on the waste gate spring boost which is 14psi. When you can just explain what exactly you want me to check on the maf and howi should go about doing this. Thanks
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What does the chip do as of now? Does your PC connect to it fine?
Double check that you still have a functioning check engine light, if it does not turn on while the car is in accessory with the engine off it means the DME cannot read the chip.
What was/is your check engine light code for?
As far as the MAF goes, you should check for the following values:
Key in the on position engine off - 0.01v
Engine idling - approx 0.7v (may be slightly different depending on engine idle speed)
If the problem with the car not being able to rev past 5000rpm is MAF related you would see it peg to 5.00v at the specific load and rpm.
Another easy way to check if its the MAF would be to drive the car with very light load past 5000rpm, if youre able to do it, its not the MAF.
Some of the other things that come to mind would be, ABS module problems and restrictions in the exhaust.
-Marcin
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War chip does not log onto the computer, and the check engine light does not light up when I turn the ignition on. I've already determined that the chip has failed by re-installing my stock chip and the car starts.
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Although youre most likely using a 179 DME and a Black War chip (Rev 5B), it sounds like you ran into a similar issue as me. Check if you can get it replaced with a different version, the Red (Rev 5A) works great for me on the 413 DME. I have written to it hundreds of times by now without any issues. Make sure to get one with an ET stamp which verifies it was electronically tested.
This image might help:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b88/arcticm3/IMAG0132.jpg) (http://s17.photobucket.com/user/arcticm3/media/IMAG0132.jpg.html)
Also here is a link to my other thread regarding this issue.
http://forums.millerperformancecars.com/index.php?topic=71.0 (http://forums.millerperformancecars.com/index.php?topic=71.0)
It might seem like a bit of work at first to get everything going, but considering the age of our cars, it's difficult to find one alike. They all have individual things that need to be addressed in order to be able to tune yourself. Regardless, it is well worth it, paying somebody to send you different tunes will take much longer and in the end you will most likely still find things that need adjustment.
- Marcin
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Yes, I am using a 179ecu. And the chip I have is the red chip, I too have written to this chip hundreds of times. I am not new to tuning, I tune cars for a living. This was the first time putting the car on the dyno to tune for the bigger injectors.